David Pavenko: My name is David Pavenko. I'm 27 years old. I was born and raised in Tacoma, Washington, and I am an engineer at the Boeing Company.
Connor Henricksen: Right off the bat, why go to Ukraine?
Pavenko: First Connor, thanks for letting me speak on this issue. I think, as with any conflict or war, people grow numb to it, even though the suffering is the same, if not worse now. But yeah, why go to Ukraine?
Back in 2022 I think, during the first months of Russia’s full scale invasion, like many Americans, I saw the footage coming out of the media of the Bucha massacre during the first days of the war. Images of civilians laying on the streets near Kyiv. Images of the maternity ward that was bombed in Mariupol. I saw these images… I was studying in university at the time, and I felt that because I have Ukrainian roots, you know, my great grandparents, my grandparents, my parents. I'm the son of two Ukrainian immigrants.
My dad, he still has siblings, brothers who live there in eastern Ukraine. My uncles, they're pastors, and they have churches there and these churches have become these humanitarian centers essentially. I just have to go and help. My conscience and my faith wouldn't let it go while I was here in Seattle, just, you know, watching the news.
Henricksen: So what do you do when you go to Ukraine?
Pavenko: I've been to eastern Ukraine six times since 2022. I usually visit for about four weeks at a time. And you know, these trips consist of supporting civilians with food, clothing, or evacuations from frontline areas.
Orphanages, lots of them. I do my best to tailor the gifts for the kids, depending on the age and gender. Local churches help me a lot with wrapping the gifts, especially now with Christmas coming up. There's a lot of orphanages for disabled children. This trip, I'll be visiting an orphanage full of blind kids.
Lots of homeless animals. Unfortunately, people you know might be in a situation where they have to evacuate their home quickly, and they leave their dogs or cats behind. I try to evacuate these animals, and if I can't catch them, I'll at least, you know, pour some food on the ground for them.
Medics, it's another big one. A lot of hospitals in frontline cities, as well as stabilization points much closer to the front line. The medics, they always need tourniquets, other trauma care items, pain medication. In the winter, medics often ask for generators. They're exhausted, so, like, at a personal level, I try to help these medics with maybe a fresh pair of boots, socks, a good hot meal, something a little different than what they eat daily. It helps with morale. And these people are heroes, absolute angels to me.
And lastly, soldiers. I made a lot of friends these last few years, young, ordinary guys, whether, again, it's food gear or just attention, sharing stories with each other. Again, helps with morale. But I've had the opportunity to live underground with soldiers at their positions. We used to set up these tents on the side of the highway to feed soldiers, about 200 soldiers a day, but you just can't do it anymore. The drones are everywhere now.
Henricksen: You do this work close to the front lines. What is the experience with drones?
Pavenko: You know this is going to be, I think, my most dangerous trip coming up. We've been seeing footage coming out of Russian soldiers deliberately targeting civilians. Journalists dubbed the term "human Safari.” Highways in eastern Ukraine are now littered with burnt out civilian vehicles. They weren't in the summer when I was there. That's why they're hanging those fishnets, by the way, all around. Unfortunately drone jammers aren't effective with fiber optic drones, and they're being used more and more, especially the last few months.
Henricksen: You mention a fiber optic drone. How does something like that work?
Pavenko: Connor, it looks like fishing line. Literally, a spool of plastic fiber optic cable is attached to the drone, and it could fly up to 10 to 15 kilometers. And the city of Kramatorsk where I’ll be is probably about 15 kilometers from the front line. You can't jam them, and the fields are littered with what looks like fishing line.
Henricksen: Tell me about some of the people that you meet when you go to Ukraine. Who are they? What are they like?
Pavenko: War brings out both the best and the worst of people in Ukraine. I've met some of the most selfless humans I've ever known. Many of the soldiers are just ordinary men. They volunteered to defend their country against a much bigger military. Most of these guys have had no military experience prior to 2022 some are in their 20s. Others are in their 50s. They're tired, and yet they continue to fight in the most literal sense, they're fighting for their freedom and identity as Ukrainians.
Putin does not recognize Ukraine, its language or culture. He's made that very clear.
I meet incredible volunteers, medics who you see in their eyes, the war clearly has a toll on them, but they still serve every day for the soldiers in the hospitals you see the effects of PTSD, and I hope now, or when this war ends, they get the help that they need.
But I come to Ukraine from the comfort of my own home here in Seattle, when and how I please. Even while there, you know, have a roof over my head. I take showers almost daily. I eat well, but many of the soldiers, they live at their front line positions 10 plus months at a time without any days off.
In July, I had this opportunity to visit a tank position for a few days. Young kids, all around, 20 years old. Bogdan, a T-64 tank driver, he gave me his bunk to sleep in. They cooked food for me. We shared stories with each other. And you know, they were interested about my life here in America as much as I was interested about theirs. But mostly we just shared stories, and that's I think that helps with morale a lot for them.
Regarding civilians, I see old people, babushkas, you know, they don't want to leave their homes near the front line. Some believe, you know the war will end any day now. It's heartbreaking. I don't blame them for not wanting to leave their homes. All they have for many of them. A drone or rocket falls one night and the next day you see the locals with their brooms cleaning the sidewalks, the streets. These people have incredible spirit.
Henricksen: What do you think the average American doesn't get about this war?
Pavenko: You know, there's one topic on my mind, and unfortunately, there's this idea among many in the right wing that Putin is somehow defending traditional Christian values. This is the same Putin that's leveling entire cities, targeting civilians daily, he persecutes non Russian Orthodox Christians in occupied Ukraine.
One topic I wanted to bring up is that Russia labels basically any denomination outside of the Russian Orthodox Church under the Moscow patriarch as sects. Since 2022, I believe, Russia has destroyed or damaged some 660 churches and other religious buildings. My own relatives lived through this in 2014 in eastern Ukraine and many Ukrainian families, I believe, can tell you the same.
There's a journalist, Simon Ostrovsky. He's documented this for PBS and Vice News for years. The torture of pastors, the closure of churches in Ukraine by the Russians. And I encourage people to check out those reports.
People like Tucker Carlson, they try to convince the public that Ukraine is somehow persecuting Christians, and Russia is trying to save Ukrainians from the "decadent west," they say. I have no doubt that the opposite is true. In Ukraine today, even the Moscow patriarch, they openly support the war, and yet they're churches, monasteries. They're open. In Ukraine, I visit them every trip. I have conversations with the monks.
Henricksen: How does this war play out in the daily life for immigrants or refugees from Ukraine or from Russia?
Pavenko: It's difficult for these people. I know that they worry a lot. A lot of kids here, you know, their dads are back home fighting. But the fact that these people were allowed to seek refuge here, but the fact that these people were allowed to seek refuge here, it's thanks to the Biden administration.
The program was called U for U, Uniting for Ukraine. But I believe since then, Trump has ended it. I was climbing Mount Rainier back in May, and I met this girl who works at a Ukrainian restaurant near the entrance at Paradise. Her dad was in eastern Ukraine fighting at the time. I visited him my last trip in July. I got him some groceries medicine he was injured about a month ago.
A lot of people here, they have stories like that too. Where I work there are many immigrants from both Ukraine and Russia and if it wasn't for the war they'd still be in Kyiv or Moscow.
Henricksen: So you mentioned the end of the U for U program, and as I understand it, a lot of Ukrainian immigrants or refugees who can now vote in the United States voted for Trump. He promised to end the war in 24 hours, and that didn't happen. Are they feeling hung out to dry?
Pavenko: Many of the Ukrainians that immigrated here in the 1990s after the collapse of the Soviet Union, they were accepted to this country as, you know, refugees due to religious persecution. And like many religious people, they lean conservative in their voting.
And, you know, they always voted Republican, but the Republican Party, I think they're starting to see, isn't the party of Reagan anymore. The MAGA movement, unfortunately, took it over. So a lot of Ukrainians that voted for him in 2016 or 2020 they did not vote for him in 2024.
At the same time, many Ukraine Americans I know, they had high hopes for Trump in ending the war. You know, he promised on his campaign and his debates, ‘I'll end the war in 24 hours. You know, I won't tell you how I'll do it, but I'll end the war.’ He didn't, and instead, he invited a war criminal to Alaska, gave him the red carpet treatment, enabled him, and now Putin's army is targeting civilians more than ever, and is emboldened more than ever, I believe.
Henricksen: Any last thoughts? Things that you want to make sure are said about your experience?
Pavenko: Yeah, I just want to say thank you to all Americans that support my work with orphans and hospitals. You know, without your donations, this wouldn't be possible.
Me helping Ukraine, that's one thing. I have family and friends there. But the fact that ordinary Americans without any connection to Ukraine reach out to me and show concern, it's incredible. So God bless you all.
Note: This transcript has been edited for clarity.
